Thanks very much Kirsten for such a thoughtful reply. I do know what you mean–& actually yes, it’s the meandering/unstructured style that fries up my brain–some of his points were good, but he started with how ‘bad’ stuff can sound uplifting when sung in Latin & played us what seemed like a 9 minute a capella recording with a translation he told us not to read… there were also asides into the music he does & doesn’t listen to & what his friends think of it, the situation in Myanmar & how visiting the migrant shelter with his god children with another aside to what he tries to teach his godchildren to be aware of and how they react to it & an aside to the aside of the aside on how people here tend to bring up their children… back to the shelter & how he was terribly upset to see some dented cans that had been donated & how very very bad they made him feel & he only hoped they had not been donated by our church… there were other discussions of plane crashes–while he couldn’t remember which plane crashed where or what was the name of the celebrity victim he wanted to bring up… but these weren’t brought in to make or substantiate a point, it seemed, but because that’s where his thoughts drifted at that juncture.

I did try your exit strategy previously, unintentionally–went to the loo while he was speaking & just stayed there till he was finished because I was afraid I was going to explode. And then the next time he spoke I didn’t turn up… but then another speaker (who made a valid point, I thought) said it wrong just turn up to worship & skip sermons we don’t agree with.

Wow–I’m impressed by your helping out with the children’s church I will try to do something like that if I stay! But I don’t know. It’s a small church, I am not good at keeping my mouth shut & I don’t want to upset the balance here.

Wait — is he saying that gay people tend toward androgyny as a protective trait? If so, and if that person is attempting to use it as a disguise, then yes, I can see how he would include it in the list. On the other hand, gender as a binary is a big part of herteronormative thought. If he isn’t able to see androgyny as another possible gender, then perhaps his consciousness-raising needs a little work in this area?

The marginalization thing is tricky. People who respond positively to that message are going to be those who do indeed feel marginalized, which will just reinforce his own belief.

I’ve run into similar things in feminist circles: Women who say that any woman who, for example, wears heels is automatically a pawn of the patriarchy without realizing that it is possible for one to thoughtfully and intentionally adopt a particular costume without being a pawn.

Anyway, this is getting long but I did want to also say that I don’t see how not going to hear one particular minister would mean a lack of support for the community. Seems to me that in any community there’s a certain amount of “turning a blind eye” that has to occur for people to get along — if only for the fact that we can’t all agree on everything all the time. I’m not suggesting that you not speak out when you disagree with a sermon, just that there are many ways to participate in a church community.

For example, I once attended a church with two ministers, one of whom had a very meandering, unstructured sermon style that drove me absolutely nuts. Instead of not going at all on her days, I’d stay for the first part of the service then go help with the children’s church.

I heard the earthquake in Chian were caused by the dam in changjiang. There is a danger of the dam collapsing. If that happens, i cant imagine the death toll.

Then I have colleagues who keep telling me, the reason they refuse to read “Fast Food Nation” is because it will turn them off fast food.

I guess it’s whether you can deal with the choices that goes into killing the chicken. If a person can’t deal with the idea of splitting the neck, then they shouldn’t eat chicken.

If they can deal though, knowing full well what’s involved, then fine.

What I don’t agree with are the ones who are squeamish the killing, and so they look away just so they can feel better about eating chicken, or any other meat.

That stinks of hypocrisy and deliberate “ignorance”

It’s about taking responsibility for our choices, what you can or cannot live with.

That said, yesterday I was watching a squirrel risk its life by crossing the road. It was about a minute of anxiety, as it seemed like it was going to get squished by the cars.

But it survived. So it was a good Sunday afternoon.

Just wanted to share this.